An Interview with Ojibwa Drum Carrier John Rice

The Canadian government and the western world know him as John Rice, former Chief of the Ojibwa First Nation from 1989 to 1993 and Drum Carrier since 1985. Spiritually, he is known as Zahguasgai, a name with three rich meanings: A ray from the sun, the sun goes right through it, or he who feeds the thunder. His passion is passing on the traditions of his people to the next generations. A member of the Bear Clan and the Midewewin Medicine Society, he lives in the Wasauksing Community on the eastern shore of Georgian Bay off of Lake Huron. Together with Deina Bomberry of the Eagle Clan, his partner in life and in ceremony (as drummers , dancers, teachers, and storytellers), John will bring his good medicine to Michigan to the Heart of the Healer’s Fifth International Gathering in September, 2005.

Longtime Pachakuti Mesa carrier Damon Pemberton interviewed John last September, as part of his graduate university studies in Alaska and shared a summary of their discussion with us. The discussion ranged from what it is like to balance elements of the traditional life and medicine ways while living in the midst of a contemporary culture, to an introduction to the understandings of the Midewewin Medicine Lodge. Damon describes John Rice, Zahguasgai, as being "an incredibly peaceful man with a genuinely good heart. His openness and caring touched me deeply. John describes his people as being on an eternal quest to remember their culture ..."

Damon: What do your people call themselves, and would you tell us about the land where your Nation lives?

John: Generally we are called First Nation, but we call ourselves Ojibwa Nation or Anishinabe. The original treaty was set up to preserve our traditional ways and practices. But the Department of Indian Affairs instituted policies that eroded our culture. One of these policies was the creation of residential schools.

We call it a Reserve up here in Canada. It has a different legal connotation than the Reservation does down in the states. It is similar to what you would call a preserve. So we were placed on these lands and the government of Canada was to preserve our way of life. Through the Indian Act, they instituted some measures that said if we stayed on the reserve we could continue to practice our ways and continue to be ourselves.

But at the same time, outside of the Indian Act, the Department of Indian Affairs instituted some policies that eroded our culture. Took away our language, took away the way we educate ourselves, basically how we practice our ceremonies. One of the things they did was they put our children into residential schools. The government at one time believed that we would only be capable of trade work. That is what the residential schools were trying to teach us. By removing our children from their families, they robbed them of their culture and their language.

In 1969, the First Nations across Canada set up Indian Education for Indian People in order to reclaim their education system and set up on-Reserve schools. Only since the end of the 1970’s to the present, have the First Nations begun practicing their ceremonies and culture openly again. Since the end of the Second World War, traditions were only practiced in secrecy by a few elders, in the dark and far away from where people lived.

The Ojibwa Nation lost a lot of its hard sciences like astronomy and biology, but the history of the people has been passed on orally. This new education system has been very successful. The young people want to learn about who they are, how we lived life ---and most importantly they want to learn our language again.

Damon: What is the primary language on the Reserve?

John: English is the primary language spoken, but our original language is returning. I would estimate that 25% of our nation is fluent in the Ojibwa language.

Our language cannot be conceived of in the same manner as English, because it is a language that refers to concept. Each word is like a picture. For example, the Ojibwa work for bear is Mukwa, which means "he who wanders everywhere." My spirit name, Zahguasgai, has three distinct meanings which all describe concepts. And there are no pronouns in the Ojibwa language. When you speak of something or someone, you use its name. There is no she or he; there is only the person.

Damon: Is the First Nation recognized as an independent entity? What is the present relationship between the Ojibwa Nation and the Canadian government, and?

John: No, not really. During the 1850’s when we signed the treaties, they were more respectful of us as a nation. In 1867, with the establishment of the government of the Province of Ontario, they began to try to skirt around the agreements of the treaty. They began charging us with hunting offenses and for the gathering of resources. It is still a touchy issue. There have been several court cases that reiterate our rights as the Ojibwa Nation, but province officials continue to charge us and to confiscate our guns and meat. They know that we will win through litigation --- but they also know that they can ruin a day of good hunting. I believe that this will continue to be a struggle.

Damon: How does the Ojibwa Nation feel about the white culture’s curiosity about First Nations beliefs, practices and ceremonies?

John: There is a prophecy concerning this issue. The prophecy talks about a time when our white brother would come to us and ask us a question. Our people would have to find our own way. When he came to us with the question, we would have to answer him the right way. If we answered him the right way or in a good way, then the children of the eighth fire would come, both native and non-native, and peace throughout the world would be eternal.

This First Nation is an ancient remnant of a great confederacy that lived along the eastern seaboard. This was called the Confederacy of the Seven Fires, and was made up of seven nations.

Damon: What was it like to serve as Chief of your Nation?

John: It was very hard. Chiefs are elected today by secret ballot and are under the Indian Affairs system. It is basically like a popularity contest. Also, for every 100 band members, a councilor is elected by secret ballot. So all decisions regarding the Nation are made by the Chief with the recommendations of his/her councilors.

There are a few First Nations that are set up with the traditional clan system of government, where consensus is necessary before a decision can be acted upon. These systems have the Chief as the chairperson, and the councilors as equals in the decision making process. These systems are rare, however. I believe that the clan system is a much better way to run First Nation governments.

Damon summarizes the next part of their conversation: John Rice’s community attempted to set up the traditional style of government and was successful in doing so from 1989 to 1995, but it has since gone back to the Indian Affairs system because of the pressure to make decisions quickly. John was the one who set up the traditional system when he became Chief in 1989. During his time as Chief, he focused on developing social programs, education programs, building projects, and modernization of amenities. John told me that one of the most difficult responsibilities of being Chief was resolving disputes within the community. He said, "It was really hard. I don’t think that I would do that again, mostly, because of the struggle to maintain a traditional view while operating under the Indian Act."

Damon: What are your responsibilities as Drum Carrier for the First Nation?

John: I have been the Drum Carrier since 1985. My responsibilities include teaching singing and drumming. The drum that I carry is known for having healing songs. Our group participates in social gatherings that bring good feelings and healing to the community through song and drumming. It is my responsibility to insure that the men on the drum conduct themselves in a respectful way, that they honor and respect women, honor and respect creation, and live by ancient principles in all aspects of their lives. One of the main functions of drumming is to teach men how to live a peaceful life. Sitting at the big drum is not a religious thing; it will make you better at whatever you are going to be good at.

Damon: Would you tell us more about the term "Anishabe," as you referred to it in the description of your people?

John: Anishabe is the term that is used to describe the people of the Seven Fires Confederacy, and refers to the first man that came down from the sky world.

When we were created, we were created in the sky world. The very first Anishabe person was a man and he was lowered to the earth. Anishabe translated means "he who was lowered to the earth." When that first Anishabe man came down, he saw creation beneath him and coming at him. So he pointed his toes so that his feet would land between the plants and he wouldn’t crush anything!

Damon: What are your favorite traditional foods?

John: Food is medicine to the Anishabe people. Different things are available at different times and the Creator gives these items in balance, to provide the medicine that is needed for the people.

There are four basic food groups: berries, proteins, corn, and wild rice. In addition, there are other medicinal plants, such as leaves, roots, and tubers, which are used for more specific applications. Three of my favorite dishes are wild rice, corn soup, which includes a little bit of everything, and anything having to do with berries.

Damon: What it was like growing up on the Reserve?

John: I was raised in a very Christian household, but still in the Midewewin way. When I was a child, one did not practice traditions openly. My mother and my grandmother taught me the Midewewin rituals covertly, without the use of words. I would simply see them making offerings and honoring things, and would participate.

I was never taught these traditional practices outright, but I was always learning them.

Damon: Would you explain the Midewewin system?

John: The Midewewin is ancient. It is given by the Creator as a way of being. It is involved with any institution that deals with the Anishabe culture, and looks after it. Within the Midewewin lodge you will find people who specialize in different areas: healing, ceremonies, teaching, and all things dealing with life.

The Midewewin lodge is concerned with being good, in the truest sense of the word, having a good heart, and sharing. It is a birthright of all Anishabe peoples. But because life is an experiential process, one must go through initiations to become Midewewin. Each level of initiation consists of a year long pondering of yourself and life. This is how you learn about the aspects of mind, body and spirit.

There are eight levels in the Midewewin system. One of the beliefs of the Anishabe people is that each person sits with the Creator before they are born and Creator asks them to come to earth and fulfill a sacred purpose for him. But the act of being born causes that person to forget that meaning. Becoming Midewewin provides the process for remembering that purpose.

Damon: Is there was any underlying belief or central theme in your culture that you would like to share?

John: How we try to be as human beings centers around our heart, Oday. Our own heart beat, the heart beat of our mother the earth, and trying to tune into that. Trying to tune into our heartbeat, trying to tune into our spirit, trying to tune into our physical being, trying to tune into our mental being.

By tuning into your heart, you do all of those things. Midewewin is actually Mno day, which means "good heart." Anishabe people try to be good-hearted people: kind, sharing, and respectful of everything. So then the big drum, or any drum, we call the Daywaygun, which means heartbeat. Having a heart beat is tuning into everything.

Damon Pemberton, a longtime mesa carrier from the Atlanta area who has apprenticed with Oscar Miro-Quesada for several years, is now living in Alaska. He spends part of each summer at a home shared by his father’s family in Canada. It was there, near the Wasauksing Community of the Ojibwa First Nation, that Damon and his father, Bruce, met John Rice. Damon shared this interview, which he completed as part of his Master’s Degree program to introduce John Rice to the Heart of the Healer community.